Comment on Melanie's Post

I agree with Melanie's idea that learning is more treasured when a student is able to grasp the concept on his or her own. Simply listening to a teacher explain an idea is in no way rewarding; what can make the learning memorable is if the student puts in his or her own effort to understand something. This type of effort proves to the student that he or she is intelligent, and is able to think for himself or herself, without the help of an instructor. While I do agree with Melanie that it is unfortunate that Chris finds the destination more important than the journey, in the case of the hike, I think his forgetting of his father's words is partly due to his age. I find kids to be naturally more competitive, so this may have influenced the differing ideologies of the father and son.

Response to Monica

I am terrible when it comes to picking sides; I am the biggest believer of a happy medium. In terms of grades, I am going to have to slightly disagree with Monica. Though it is true that grades can be a large inhibitor of the motivation to learn for personal want, I do believe that, if done right, a grading system can prove to be a good thing. I do not believe grades are an accurate indicator of knowledge or intelligence, because they are far too broad for that, but I do believe they are important because of the motivational value they present. The drive must come from one’s self, and let’s be honest, not many people scour at an A or B with disdain for the grading system when they are THEIR grades.

The lack of originality, however, is a good point, and I agree heavily. I disagree with the lack of imagination that our youth has been presenting as the years go by, and though there are many factors that can be to blame, I think the greatest criminal is the lack of creative outlets in school systems. Of course, it is hard to get creative in math, science, or history (unless you have a great passion), but in literary classes and (hopefully properly funded) fine art classes, there is a serious lack of free will and freedom of expression. But even in the formal classroom setting is there a lack of creativity; I appreciate Phaedrus for breaking this barrier.

Side note: I am highly considering listening to the Miami Symphony Orchestra while I read this.

Galoomph

I used to be very indifferent about Phaedrus; he did not seem like much of a character to me, since there was not much to judge him by. The more I read about his career as a teacher, the more I grow to like him. I realize that he is a figurehead of thought and philosophy, and the passion for his job is evident. To be a teacher that succeeds to provoke deep thought and fierce debate with substantial evidence that such effort was productive, perform his job effectively. When a student is able to grasp an idea that was self-attained with genuine effort, they treasure it more. I still do not have any knowledge on Phaedrus’s personal life, aside from the nutshell that the narrator gave us, but I do believe he has much to offer, and obviously the narrator does, too.

                Something that bothered me particularly, though, was the reason for Chris’s exhausting determination in his hike up the mountain. The narrator explains how crucial it is to take the hike slowly and deliberately, for again, it is about the journey, not the destination. The fact that Chris had lost sight of this from the competitiveness and social prejudice from a YMCA camp is pretty tragic. It may seem petty, but it is a topic that resonates personally for me. The pressure presented to me in summer camps with various competitions and groups set in a sort of clique-ish caste system resulted in a less enjoyable summer than any brochure had led my parents to believe. I would like to reiterate: I despise summer camps.

Children are supposedly innocent, and perhaps this would hold true had adults not felt that introducing us to prejudice and leading us to believe that social standards define our importance and self-worth. I am not a competitive person,  but in a summer camp setting this automatically categorizes you as antisocial and defiant, and if the camp counselors (the figureheads of maturity and high moral code) staple you with these titles, your peers are sure to follow the footsteps of their elders- who can blame them? Monkey see, monkey do. So those of us who are aware of their lacking in some areas are given no choice but to participate (and fail) or be shunned to the bottom of the food chain. Either way, you end up sitting alone at the snack break.

But suppose you’re in Chris’s shoes. Suppose you feel the pressure and overcome it, prove yourself worthy through hard work and dedication, and defy all the odds. Well then, kudos for the effort and congratulations on the victory, but as the narrator opines, it’s an empty victory set by the standards of the outside world. Not quite worthless, but not nearly as sweet.

Response to Priya’s (Zane Mandell)

I would first like to, once again, note that it cannot be more obvious at this point that Phaedrus and the narrator is the same person. It is evident in the fact that the narrator explicitly states that he is trying to recollect all of the fragments and scraps that were left behind after the electrodes were strapped to Phaedrus’ head. They are the same person; I don’t believe that this should be an issue any longer.

I also feel that the pacing is becoming very redundant within the novel. While I do tend to appreciate the topics that are being discussed by the narrator through his Chautauquas, the style by which is novel reads is very predictable where the narrator goes about discussing one aspect of Phaedrus and the subject and then jumps back to reality to discuss what has taken place while he is lost in thought. It is very monotonous in nature and lacks a sense of quality. It is very bland in the way it reads, certain methods should have been spruced up in order to make it easier on the reader.

The only thing I have to say about the topic of education in this novel is that it is very ironic. We are being graded on the very thing we do here on this blog, yet what we are reading questions the whole notion of the method. This topic for me is not discussable as it will currently lead us nowhere.

Education and Quality (Priya Dhairyawan)

In this week's reading, the narrator talked about the manner in which schools operate. Students are expected to imitate exactly what the teachers want, but are not supposed to copy them exactly; instead, students must rephrase the teacher's ideas in order to feign originality, while still using the teacher's ideas. "...students should be outraged by someone trying to use them to seek the truth, to imitate it. To actually search for it was a damned imposition" (184). Eliminating grades would, in my opinion, increase education, as Phaedrus explained. He mentioned that complete originality can earn grades ranging from A's to F's, so students fear being original, as they have a better chance of getting good grades by imitating the teacher's thoughts. The absence of grades in school would allow students more freedom in their beliefs, giving them the opportunity to explore different ideas, without having to worry about getting a bad grade.
Like Phaedrus's students, I am also confused and frustrated with his discussion of quality. It is irritating to not be able to define the word, yet know what it means; many people see it in the same way, but it is difficult to define in words. "But even though Quality cannot be defined, you know what Quality is!" (185). I can definitely relate to the students' frustration with Phaedrus's lecture. He has defied the standard of teachers feeding information to students, which the students will then imitate. Instead, he is forcing them to think for themselves, regardless of how abstract the concept it, not only for the students, but for him as well. " Up to now Phaedrus had been compelled by the academic system to say what he wanted, even though he knew that this forced students to conform to artificial forms that destroyed their own creativity. Students who went along with his rules were then condemned for their inability to be creative or produce a piece of work that reflected their own personal standards of what is good" (187).
The novel has continued to follow its structure of alternating between the narrator's travels with his son and friends, and the story of Phaedrus. Even though different concepts are discussed throughout the book, I am growing very bored with how the novel is progressing. It seems like an endless cycle of traveling and following Phaedrus's life. One other thing that has been bothering me from the beginning is that the narrator has still not been given a name. Is it because we should assume his name is Phaedrus, or is there another reason?

What is Quality? (Zane Mandell)

       The narrator really delves deeply to the roots of Phaedrus’ conundrum with Quality. The word that cannot be defined but it can be known that it is there and proven that it exists. The problem at hand is defining the issue; the classical thinking that is rooted in Phaedrus is driving him to find his solution. He recognizes for the briefest of moments that there may not be a reason for a definition, when he says that the romantics are trapped in the “‘groovy dimension’ that was concerned with the immediate surface of things (282).” But Phaedrus does not accept this light and wants answers, which is simply a result in how he was trained and more importantly how he has decided is the way to think. Not necessarily saying that he is better for thinking in this fashion rather simply because he has chosen to think this way and has too much pride to let it go.

          After reading through the various scenarios where Phaedrus has tried so hard to find what he is looking for I find myself a student in his classroom. I can see every point of view from this omniscient perspective and have formed my own opinion about what Quality is. I do agree that it is there and can be proven so by the method of removing in and seeing the differences. But at least at this point, while I see myself as a classical thinker like Phaedrus, I do not see this utter need for a definition in order to secure the ghost that Phaedrus so desperately desires. I believe that certain things should be left unexplained because that is the true beauty of it. The things that we cannot put to words are those which we cherish most. If you were to go about the method of trying to explain something to a young child most times you will just get a question from the child, trying to reach deeper down to the roots of the meaning. If you are facing the question of why many times then you eventually have dug so deep that there is nowhere left to dig and you can only respond by saying ‘I don’t know’. If the young child has not lost interest by that point they will by then just go about something else, forgetting the uselessness of the study of meaning. Some things are just know, but the narrator is not complete with his search of what Phaedrus had searched for, hopefully the novel will no longer descend to digression and focus on the quality of the situations that the narrator discusses.

Grades

            We are back to the same old routine of scenery and philosophy. But this time, it was different. They want on a hike, and the topic came up about Phaedrus and the elimination of grades. He tried this in his rhetoric class, and the student had to think for himself or herself. This forced them to make the right decisions, which could also be considered quality judgments. This same idea of quality came up in the previous chapter, which is an allegory with the mountains. The ideas are sometimes confusing, but they make sense. I think the grade idea is an interesting concept because I, as a student, have experienced the same. When grades are distributed, the wok becomes about getting a good grade, not about learning. That is honestly what school is about nowadays. It is somewhat sad, because there are very few classes in which I actually obtain knowledge that is useful. I would have more knowledge if grades were not given, because I would not care for the, as much, and this would result in a better decision. This is all based on Phaedrus’ idea. I personally do not know whether I like grades or not. They keep me motivated, but also stress me out. I am constantly thinking about doing work for the grade, and I do not learn and retain information because of it.

            Another concept that goes hand in hand with grades is the fact that everything is expected to have a definition that is sensible. This is shown in the novel through Phaedrus and his concept of Quality. This frustrates me. It may be because of the fact that it is the way our generation was raised to believe that grades are important, but I want a clear thought on what Quality is. And I know I have not gotten that. I really hope I eventually do. I need more answers from this novel. There is so much I do not know and I am so frustrated. I do not care that the scenery is pretty and peaceful. We already understand that Chris does not stop complaining and that he acts out. The worst part is that his father lets him. The parts of the novel I do find interesting are the philosophical thought, in which I still end with a sense of confusion.